That Music Podcast: A Podcast for Elementary Music Teachers
This show will deliver tips and tricks for elementary music teachers looking to create high-quality musical experiences for students in the general music classroom.This show will provide answers to questions like:*How do I create an inclusive music classroom?*How do I sequence my elementary music lessons?*How to teach elementary music?*What songs should I use in my general music classroom?*How do I balance work and life as a music teacher?
In this episode of That Music Podcast, Bryson tackles a tough but essential topic: how to include music and cultural activities that aren’t from our own backgrounds in a way that’s authentic and respectful. He shares practical advice on research, avoiding stereotypes, and when—and how—to adapt materials for the classroom. If you’ve ever wondered how to bring diverse music into your teaching without missteps, this episode offers thoughtful guidance and encouragement to get started thoughtfully.
Episode Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
1:47 What does authentic inclusion look like?
5:18 Why authentic representation benefits students and communities
Have questions or want to share feedback? Reach out to us at hello@thatmusicteacher.com - we’d love to hear from you!
Introduction
What does authentic inclusion look like?
Why authentic representation benefits students and communities
Understanding Adaptation vs. Appropriation
Navigating mistakes and learning moments
Takeaways
Bryson Tarbet:
Today we're gonna be talking about something that might be a little bit uncomfortable. Um, but I also think it's a really important discussion on how we can ensure authenticity when we're including music and activities that come from cultures that are not our own. So let's talk about that. You are listening to that music podcast with Bryson Tart, the curriculum designer and educational consultant behind that music teacher in the elementary music summit. Each week, Bryson and his guest will dive into the reality of being an elementary music teacher and how music can truly be transformative in the lives of the students you serve. Show notes and resources mentioned in this episode. Can be found@thatmusicteacher.com. Hello everyone and welcome back to that music podcast. Today we are gonna be talking about a, a topic that is vital, I think for every modern music educator, and that comes down to how do we genuinely honor and represent cultures through music. Activities in our classrooms in a way that is respectful and authentic and real, um, especially when those come from cultures that are not our own. Um, first of all, I wanna address the elephant in the room, which is I am a, a white man that is giving this information. Um, and I want to, I, I think it's important for me to represent that because. When we come into our classroom, regardless of our background, every single person comes into their classroom with different biases, um, and different understanding of understandings of the world that we live in. And I think it's important for us to recognize that so we are aware of what we are and are not bringing into our classroom. So let's talk a little bit about what I mean by this. And I think really the, the biggest thing that. That I want to kind of get across is whatever you're doing in your music classroom, whether it has to do with cultural relevancy or anything, do it in off in an authentic way. Um, I've done a lot of work over the last few years on what are my own personal values, what are my educational values, what are my values as a company? And the biggest one for me is, is being authentic and making sure that what we are doing is done in an authentic manner. So it's more than just getting the notes right and it's, and understanding the context, especially when we're adding in music and, and dances and, and things from different cultures. It's understanding that sometimes it, it's not just a song there, there's culture attached to it. There's significance attached to it. There's purpose, and I think that can be really, it can be really difficult. I think it can be really difficult for some of us because. We, we don't want to make a mistake. We don't want to mess up or represent something inauthentically, so we often just don't include it. Um, and I'm so aware that I've done this a lot in my teaching, especially early in my career. Um, but I think the reality is, is we have to take some risks sometimes because it's important to make sure that our classroom is. Culturally relevant and culturally diverse because there's just so much music out there that is one really cool, really good, and really meaningful. Um, so what I'm talking about, authentic authenticity, it's. It's not just including it, it's making sure that we're not doing it in a way that's kind of, you know, making it. We wanna avoid tokenism, right? We don't wanna just put in, um, certain songs in certain months because, you know, that's what the month is. We wanna make sure that we are constantly. Creating these environments, these opportunities to bring in different cultures. Uh, I'm not saying we can't do, you know, something Black History Month in the music classroom. I think it's a great way to highlight the connection to the world we're in. Uh, but that does, but I think it's also really important to make sure that it doesn't just end there. So by beyond that, I think it's also really important for us to make sure we're avoiding stereotyping and, and exoticizing things. Um, I, one of the big things that I always. Was aware of in my classroom is especially when I would be giving the, you know, showing them a different style of music or something, um, than what they're used to is the responses my students would get, you know, would, would, would vary depending on the students and the age and what we're listening to. Uh, and I think the, the biggest thing that we can do is say, Hey, like, just because something is not what you're used to. It doesn't make it bad, it doesn't make it silly, it doesn't make it weird. It's just not what you're used to. And that's okay. That's why we're gonna learn a little bit more about it so that you can have a little bit more context. Um, and I will say it literally just like that to my students. Um, so, and because I think it's really important for us to make sure that we're being respectful of what we're sharing, um, and. And then on the teachers as well. Again, make sure what we're sharing is accurate. Um, don't make stuff up, don't guess. If you don't know the answer, say, I don't know. Let me, let me see if I can find it. Uh, and then do that work. Don't just make things up, don't just try to have all the answers. It's okay not to have all the answers. So what are some of the benefits of having this type of authentic representation? Um. Uh, there the answer is there's so many. You know, for the students, it really helps them understand that the world is bigger than the world that they see. Um, especially when we are teaching in schools that are fairly local. Um. There. You know, I, I taught in a school district that a lot of the, the students that I saw, like, you know, I taught like that was, that was kind of their worldview, was the town that they lived in. Um, and I think that it's really important for us to realize that there are, there's a world out there. Um, and beyond that, there's also students in your class that have an a, a, a greater understanding that the world is bigger than their, their local environment. And we want them to be able to see their cultures and the cultures of their friends and their families. Represented in an authentic and positive way. Um, and I think that it really just comes down to how can we make music connect more to the reality of the world that we live in? And I think that is something that we just need to do better in general as music educators. Um, and I think there are a lot of movements that are making that more. Prevalent and making more people aware of the work that we need to do. But I, I still think we have, I think we have a lot of places to go. So let's get back a little bit to the point. I got a little bit on a tangent who's surprised, not me. Uh, but how do we do if we're, if we are trying to implement. Music and dances and and whatever into our classroom that is not from our own culture. How do we make sure we're doing that in an authentic way? And I think the first place to, the first thing you can do is just. Do some research. Don't just figure out what you found in, you know, one book and assume that it's the truth. Um, especially if it's one of those like old, um, you know, classroom textbooks that we've had. A lot of those kind of, have a lot of, there's a lot of mixed reactions to the, the, the content that's in there. I, I think it's really important for, um. Us to go a little bit beyond the surface, right? So if we find a song and it says it's represented, um, let, let's say we find a song and it says Mexican folk song. Alright, let's see what we can do first to confirm that, that we're not on the, the wrong track, but two, let's see if we can get a little bit more specific. Right. Where in Mexico is this coming from? What, what is this type of song? Is it something that was used, um, publicly or was it something privately or, you know, was it, where did it come from? How can we get a little bit deeper? Um, especially if we can find multiple sources, um, that can be really helpful. And then just, I think when, whenever possible prioritize. Culturally informed resources and people. Um, so if you're able, if they're, you know, if you have a resource that is from, um, a Native Voice or someone that is, is, you know, from that, that culture, that's gonna be a great way to kind of. Get the ball rolling and understanding how authentic that this is. Um, connecting with your community is another great one, especially if you have live in a community that has these, a diverse population that can really help you, not only just understand the students that you have, um, but make those, those bigger connections from the. You know, what's going on in the real world of the life of our students, but the community in our cl in our classrooms. Um, with that being said, always make sure that you're emphasizing respectful outreach and not trying to burden individuals or say, Hey, you tell me about this. Um, we wanna make sure that we're doing it in a way that allows them to share what they want and when they want. Without feeling like they are trying, they need to educate us on what the world around us looks like. Before we get any further, I wanna talk a little bit about the difference between an adaptation and appropriation. Um, because I think there really is an important distinction for us to make, um, and adapt. An adaptation sometimes is appropriate, especially in an elementary music setting. Sometimes we might need to simplify a song, um, for age appropriateness. Um, but you're keeping those main core elements. Uh, appropriation is taking those elements completely out of context. Getting rid of that original meaning, commercializing it, and just making it sound like x, y, Z, right? Um, if you need to do an adaptation, like there are some times that I've done, I, I've had to and adapt a, a folk dance because it was too tricky for my students. The important thing is. Say that you're doing that. When I performed, um, I did Los Machete and I, I simplified one part of the, the dance at a performance. Um, I told 'em, first of all, my students knew that from the very beginning. Um, and then even in the performance I say, Hey, you know, we, we, uh, we changed this part right here, um, because X, Y, z like I, I literally said like, this is something that we did to make it more accessible for the age of the people that are in my, are my in my classroom. Um. I think that's the biggest part when you're changing things, state that you're changing things. Because first of all, that's how things get accidentally appropriated. Um, you know, especially like if we're sticking with folk dances. If I were to keep teaching that folk dance or if I were to go to, you know, a clinic and teach that folk dance and not share that I had changed this. Or, you know, instead of teaching it the, the authentic way, I taught it my way, well then the next person's gonna teach it a little bit. Like it's just gonna kind of get out. You see how it kinda can get out a little bit outta control. So always be explicit with when you need to make an adaptation. Why you made that adaptation and what the real authentic version is. Focus on the process, not just the product. That learning journey, talking about how this fits into the greater under scheme of the world is really important, especially when we're bringing in things from a culture that are not our own. We want students to see how the world around us. Is all really interconnected. Sometimes we just need to follow the thread a little bit. So if you're listening and saying, Bryson, I am still a little bit on the fence. Not that I don't want to do this, but I don't know how to do it. Without making a mistake or without doing something wrong. Um, the reality is, is that you're probably going to make a mistake. I've made plenty in the ways that I've implemented things. Um, there are things that I've implemented that, you know, we'll talk about this next week that I, I re, I truly thought they were an authentic source. And it comes out, they came from an incredibly questionable past. And I think that is something that, you know, the term when you know better, do better. I think we, you know, we hear that a lot, but I think it's also just really important for us to understand that we will never be perfect, but we can't let the fear of making a mistake or doing something wrong stop us from trying to do what we believe is right. I'm gonna leave you with three kind of wrap up points. First of all, authenticity is about context, respect, and seeking native voices whenever possible. Also doing your due diligence. Finding that research is and and making sure that the resources that you are sourcing are authentic, are incredibly crucial. And the last one is that ongoing self-reflection is essential. What's working, what's not? And what are you struggling with when implementing something new in your classroom? And how can you get past that? With that being said, thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of the podcast. I hope that you will leave us a review wherever you are watching or listening. We really wanna know what you want more of, what are you looking forward to, what different topics you want us to talk about. Um, we'll see you next week. And as always, thank you so much for making a difference in the lives of the students that you teach.
